The Confederate Flag and the Assault on the Capitol

photo sent to me from Twitter

How does one process the image of a Confederate battle flag in the United States Capitol?

“Trump did what Lee, Jackson, and Davis couldn’t in four years,” a colleague texted me as the first images of insurrectionists started appearing on social media.

“Overthrow democracy?” I replied, only half-kidding. I hadn’t yet tuned in to the full extent of what was happening in D.C. but that text got my attention. I started paying close attention. Like most of America—like much of the world—I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. The Capitol building was being stormed for the first time since British troops torched the place in 1814.

A little while later, I saw images of insurrectionists atop part of the Grant Memorial in front of the Capitol. Like the image of the battle flag inside the Capitol, the image raised a lot of complex emotions in me, none of them good.

photo sent to me from Twitter

Those of us who study military history know how important flags are on a battlefield, and what it means to “plant the flag” somewhere. (Heck, anyone who’s seen Neil Armstrong’s photo on the moon knows how powerfully symbolic a flag planting is.)

Knowing what Grant went through—and what he put the United States Army through—to win the Civil War, I was deeply offended that anyone pretending to be a patriotic American would show such disrespect to our soldiers and the general who commanded them. Such “lip-service patriots” dishonor actual patriotism and our servicemen and women.

I use the phrase “insurrectionists” intentionally because there’s no excusing Wednesday’s event as anything but. In no uncertain terms, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), in comments from the Senate floor, referred to the event as a “failed insurrection.”

“The Constitution protects peaceful protest, but violence—from Left or Right—is ALWAYS wrong,” tweeted Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX). “And those engaged in violence are hurting the cause they say they support.”

Cruz, who’s been accused by political opponents of “abetting sedition and inspiring pro-Trump riot,” knows of what he speaks. The violence undercut his effort to contest the results of the Electoral College, which some critics cite as a major factor in inciting the violence in the first place.

But he’s right. Those engaged in violence hurt the causes they say they support. It was true last summer during protests for racial justice, and it was true Wednesday in Washington.

The presence of the Confederate flag in the midst of chaos didn’t help advocates of Confederate monuments or Confederate heritage groups. “One of the f*ckers was carrying a Confederate flag and screaming at a black police office in the Capitol Building,” a friend texted me. He also said there was a gallows outside, erected ostensibly to scare the politicians but eerily reminiscent of Jim Crow “justice.” It looked like they were trying to hang democracy my friend said.

“The term ‘Confederate’ is trending big time on Twitter,” another text said. “I am disgusted by this. Kiss the Lost Cause goodbye.”

Not every supporter of Confederate heritage is a Lost Causer, for sure. But I saw plenty of conscientious folks lamenting the damage being done by those flags.

“This will have grave consequences on our reenactments,” one person wrote—“that is, if we have any at all.”

Another agreed that the entire Civil War reenactment community would be hurt. “This flag was never meant to be used in this fashion…” he wrote. “I doubt if Civil War reenactment will ever come back ’cause of these fools.’

Someone countered with a great question: “What was the flag meant to be used for? What did the Confederacy stand for?”

“The flag was used for states’ rights,” came the reply.

“Which rights? And it was used in an attempt to separate from the US government, so I could see a connection. But I agree it has no place in those halls.”

Even in the best of times, the Confederate battle flag raises important questions. In the middle of an insurrection, its original symbolism came into pretty sharp focus.

Anyone who has pointed to the flag and said, “Heritage, not hate” had that argument undercut by the insurrectionists, who reminded everyone that, for some, the Confederate flag is a tool for intimidation and, for others, a symbol of repression and hate. On the battlefield, it was used by soldiers fighting against the lawful government of the United States “to separate from the US government.”

And so it was used again, not by an army but a mob, engaged in an insurrection of their own.

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Click here for some of my previous discussions about the Confederate flag.

From Steward Henderson, here are “My Thoughts on the Confederate Flag

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Other Civil War-related items I saw online yesterday:

Historical resources to contextualize the storming of the U.S. Capitol” from the American Civil War Museum

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A friend of mine who’s both a historian and a proud Texan wrote, “I now identify much more easily with George Thomas and his decision.”

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photo courtesy of Politico

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“The only real winner yesterday was James Buchanan’s presidential ranking.”

— Dan V.

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“On January 6th, 1853, president elect Franklin Pierce was on a train near Boston when it derailed. He and his wife were not hurt but they lost their young son in the accident. Fighting his own depression, the new chief executive promised the country peace while asking citizens to “sustain me by your strength.” We had a different kind of “train wreck” on January 6, 2021. Pierce, who faced the complex questions of slavery and expansion, feared what the future might hold. We have the advantage of having the chance to come together on issues much more solvable than those Pierce faced. Let’s hope our national “train wreck” spurs better solutions than what followed Pierce a few years later.”

— Greg W.

This entry was posted in Memory, Sieges, Ties to the War, War of 1812 and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

75 Responses to The Confederate Flag and the Assault on the Capitol

  1. Meg Groeling says:

    My tears feel wasted. Are we now waiting for the Night of the Long Knives?

  2. Tom Cadorette says:

    Interesting anecdote: many articles reported yesterday that this was the only time a Confederate flag ever entered the U.S. Capitol. Not so, apparently. When Sen. Strom Thurmond of SC was elected President pro tempore of the Senate in 1981, rumors floated about that he had the Stars’n’Bars hung on a wall of his private office in the Capitol, brought over from his primary office in the Russell Senate Building. It remained there for several months but was eventually relocated back to his Russell office. Not sure whether this is true, but it was the scuttlebutt at the time, and definitely within Thurmond’s character to have done, if nothing else but as his own personal dig.

    • Lyle Smith says:

      If the Georgia and Mississippi state flags ever hung there in the last 50 or 100 years, the Confederate battle flag was there too.

  3. Donald Smith says:

    Well said. Those jackasses who waved the Confederate flag on Capitol Hill yesterday disrespected my great-grandfather, great-great grandfather and four great-great (?) uncles, who fought under that flag in the same cavalry unit. That is their flag, not the flag of those jackasses.

    And, for anyone who says that the Stars and Bars has to be banished from public view because some jerks used it yesterday, I have plenty of pictures of the Klan carrying the Stars and Stripes to show you.

  4. Stephen Recker says:

    And yet we woke up this morning and the country is still here.

  5. John Pryor says:

    Stormed? No pitchforks, torches or even Enfield’s. A tad dramatic?

  6. Rhea Cole says:

    The point is that the glad has nothing to do with Confederate history. That flag is the go to banner for hate groups all over the world… that is what it stands for now. None of this groups know or care where the flag came from originally.

  7. Darren Rawlings says:

    Well said Chris sorry about the British in 1814 but joking aside I hate that these people have adopted the Confederate battle flag its very sad ?

    • Chris Mackowski says:

      I will accept your apology on behalf of the British people. 😉

      It’s unfortunate that the Confederate battle flag has been misappropriated for decades by all sorts of folks. Its original meaning has become lost, layered over with all sorts of unsavory meanings.

      Some would argue that its original meaning is also wrapped up in a lot of negative stuff, which I get. But I also understand that some people see it as a symbol of the individual sacrifice of their ancestors. It’s complicated stuff that should be approached with care (from all angles).

    • John Foskett says:

      Well, at least nobody died so far as I know when Ross and Cockburn burned the place – although, as also happened this time, they did loot it.

    • Taylor says:

      Darren, I get that you are joking, but I will point out that the burning of Washington in 1814 was after the U.S. had invaded Upper Canada and destroyed both Port Dover and York. Also, I think a lot of United Empire Loyalists would have had an opinion about it. However, it was war after all, and thankfully a long time ago. This is a discussion for a different website though.

  8. Russ D says:

    I think the last time the Confederate Flag was in the Capitol Building was as a captured war trophy from a soundly defeated enemy, so there is that.

  9. Lyle Smith says:

    Insurrection is the right word by definition, but tonally it feels a little strong because it only lasted for a matter of hours. Not sure the Wiki entry for this event will out strip the one for Shay’s Rebellion in western Massachusetts.

    Prayers for those who died whoever they may be, especially the woman who had served in the Air Force for all of us. RIP.

    • John Foskett says:

      Oh, I think it will. And much more especially prayers for the police officer who died defending the Capitol and those inside it from this violent insurrection.

    • John Foskett says:

      Oh, I think it will. And much more especially prayers for the police officer who died defending the Capitol and those working inside it against a violent insurrection.

  10. Douglas Pauly says:

    “The presence of the Confederate flag in the midst of chaos didn’t help advocates of Confederate monuments or Confederate heritage groups.”

    And that just might have been THE point and objective! I do not know who was responsible for the violence that took place at OUR capitol the other day. Let the investigations determine that. But I’ll say this, a lot of these images sure are ‘convenient’, to say the least. Especially given the violence directed at Confederate markers and symbols in recent times.

    For starters, those investigations have to determine how so many people were able to ‘breach’ capitol security so easily. With the entire Congress present to certify votes, that building had to be among THE most heavily defended and protected spots on this Earth, yet, people readily got inside. I see the media is presenting everything as being the work of “Trump supporters”. Virtually every utterance from them includes that phrase. Hmmm, I do not recall ANY references to ‘Democrat Party supporters’ when the sustained mayhem of last year played out across this country. I mentioned the violence directed at Confederate symbols, again, not a peep about that being the work of ‘Democrat Party supporters’. I say all this because the yahoos parading around with the Confederate flags in the manners displayed and at this particular place might be doing so for the express purpose of generating more such violence towards those symbols. In other words, IF they are engaged in such antics, then they sure has heck are not ‘fans’ of the Confederacy and are not expressing any ‘pride’ about them. They are doing so to discredit them.

    We heard from plenty of sources, specifically in the media, that there were supposed right wing ‘infiltrators’ of the ‘protests’ I mentioned earlier that became quite violent throughout 2020. There are reports from the organizers of this ‘protest’ that it was not elements of their own protesters who committed violence this past Wednesday, that it was at least some number of ANTI-Trump participants who were there to discredit the proceedings. Will we ever get an honest report from media about any of that? I do want to know WHO these people are, and who they represent. We see all the time when a crime like a mass shooting occurs where ALL law-abiding gun owners are blamed, then we are lectured to NOT hold all Muslims accountable when some jihadist wipes people out in the name of Allah. We heard that only a small number and percentage of the protesters last year were bad actors intent on violence, yet here we are already seeing where EVERYBODY who can be labeled as a “Trump supporter” is responsible for the worst acts that transpired Wednesday. This is the kind of crap that proper investigations should address. ALL large movements have a fringe element to them, and that certainly applies to today’s political movements. But absent having all the necessary facts, we are seeing from some folks the now-usual antic of believing what is shown because they WANT to believe it. I say again these Confederate flags, among other things, sure are ‘conveniently’ available to stir the pot up.

    • Charles S. Martin says:

      Fortunately for Hitler, he had the Communists to blame for the burning of the Reichstag, the destruction of the legislative body which was the last effective German institution that could stand between him and absolute dictatorial power. There, the Nazis supplied the security that was supposed to keep it safe. Of course, now the Trump supporters will blame ANTI-Trump agents for the attempt to block Congressional approval of the electoral vote for Biden to allow Trump to continue his quest for absolute power while the unused potential security of the military commanded by him remained in its barracks. Unfortunately for him and his supporters Rupert Murdoch is no Josef Goebbels.

    • Bob Ruth says:

      Douglas:

      I think you’re absolutely right to question who was really behind the incursion at the Capitol. I have heard from very reliable sources that Elvis Presley and JFK Jr. (who we all know are still alive) were the real behind-the-scenes instigators. Along with those Satanic, baby-killing pedophiles who control Hollywood and the Deep State.

      I also agree that it’s outrageous for the Lamestream Media to label the patriots who entered the Capitol as Trump supporters, just because all of them had – minutes earlier – attended a pro-Trump rally where the president spoke.

      Douglas, I’m waiting breathlessly for your next inciteful post..

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        Respond to….what exactly Bob? Did you even read my post? Would you like some points within it explained further? I’ll be happy to do that. I want to learn the TRUTH about what happened at the Capitol and I want to know WHO was responsible. Period. I advocate for resisting the usual knee-jerk CRAP that is always presented by the sorry entity we collectively refer to as ‘the media’. How many times do we have to see a news ‘report’ intentionally sensationalized to incite partisan political outrage? Do you watch CNN, or at least ever visit their Facebook site? EVERY TIME there is, say, an incident involving a white police officer and a black individual it is AUTOMATICALLY a case of police brutality, or worse, and that remains their narrative even after due process reveals that the police did their job. Do you remember Ferguson, MO? I sure do.

        What frightens you when it comes to wanting the unfettered truth here? ALL movements have nutjobs affiliated with them. Were those Democrats rioting and looting and assaulting people and doing even worse this past year all over the country? I’ve heard and seen some reports, at least some accusations, that some ‘right wing infiltrators’ were involved in some of those incidents. How do you stand with that? Aren’t you even the least bit curious to find out what really happened, and who dd what? Or is ‘the media’ good enough for you to the point where you will gladly and blindly accept what they say about anything?

        Oh, and Bob, stay with your day job. Your efforts at alleged humor via Elvis and JFK, Jr. just ain’t getting it done. I’ll be happy to help you with as well. Let me know. 🙂

      • Bob Ruth says:

        Douglas:

        Re. your reply to my original post.

        Sadly, your criticism of my attempts at sarcastic humor are sot on. My inadequate stabs at mirth pale in comparison to yours. All of your posts are hilarious – leave me rolling on the floor in laughter. Frankly, I’m jealous..

        Keep up the good (and very funny) work, ol’ buddy.

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        Always glad to help Bob. No need to thank me, it’s what I do.

  11. Duff says:

    Insurrection ??? Shame on our three branches of Government that have made us, the US a joke in the eyes of the rest of the world ! Putting aside a couple of Confederate flags in a sea of Stars and Stripes..as wrong as it was to break the law,maybe the folks hiding in the basement,our elected officials, should follow the law and not cower in fear to those who are committing real insurrection?

    • Douglas Pauly says:

      The DNC has put forth their proverbial Word for the day” (“insurrection”) and the usual lemmings march forth spewing it because it doesn’t require any work. Such are the times we live in. It;s “Gravitas” all over again!

  12. nygiant1952 says:

    Why is it , that the ANV battle flag, always appears at a republican Party rally?you never see that flag at a Democratic Party rally?

    The assault on the Capitol, the Citadel of our Democracy and the home to the Legislative branch of the Government, was incited by the Executive Branch…President Donald Trump.

    This was pure and. simple, a terrorist attack against our Country, by terrorists egged on bt Trump.

    • Douglas Pauly says:

      And here you make my point. Thanks for that.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Glad. to see you agree with me that the assault was on the Legislative Branch of our Government, by the Executive Branch…President Donald Trump.
        Sad to see that the GOP has welcomed the Olde Confederacy into its fold.

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        We obviously ‘agree’ that the association of ONE such symbol is enough for the likes of you and your party to condemn and and all who dare to resist the vision you all have for this country.

        Right?

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Our vision is the vision of the winner of the Electoral College.

        The only place for a Confederate flag…any Confederate flag, is at the grave marker of a soldier who fought for the Confederacy, and a museum. Add to that the names military bases named for Confederate generals.

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        Except your side will no doubt desecrate any such grave marker. And the museums WILL be targeted soon enough. Your party is already agitating to have EVERY reference to the entity THEY created, the Confederacy, removed from BATTLEFIELDS. Hey ‘Giant’, maybe I’ll live long enough to (ahem) ‘learn’ that there never was a Civil War in this country. Will you all eliminate slavery as well from the history books? I reckon we should all stay tuned.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Those are good places for the ANV battle flag…cemeteries and museums.

        What do you want to do with captured Rebel regimental flags, since we are talking about flags.

    • Gary Morris says:

      The Democrats certainly didn’t give a damn all spring and summer about police officers being assaulted and our cities burning. It’s only now that they are peeing their pants over protestors.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        The Republicans certainly didn’t give a damn when Black men were murdered by police and by vigilantes. It’s only now, when Trump’s supporters occupied and tried to disrupt the Government, that they are worried about their Party.

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        Nobody cries out like stuck pigs quite like today’s Democrats do when they are exposed to the antics they commit against others. They’re paid and organized mobs were not only allowed to run rampant with no worries about the police for all of last year, but those mobs were encouraged and incited via their own party’s election officials and their media abettors.

        The difference between the vast majority of us on the right and the vast majority of those in today’s left is that all we want is an HONEST accounting. WE want to know who it was who were committing this mayhem. And regardless of who it was, or who they ‘support’, WE want them prosecuted.Contrast that ‘Giant’s side here. There wasn’t a single Democrat or media type who supports them who condemned THEIR violence. So credibility here from anyone on the left like YOU ‘Giant’ just won’t resonate..

        Cue the open whines to the admin to remove posts like mine that contain such indisputable truth. It’s happened before here, and recently at that!

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Pretty easy…the Republicans have a rally, are incited to riot and then try and disrupt the Government by storming the Capitol.

        That’s called Insurrection.

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        Very easy indeed. Your reliance on your party’s talking pints won’t change the truth.

        Umm, Giant? How soon will you be openly whining to the admin (again) to have posts removed? Asking for a friend.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        “Umm, Giant? How soon will you be openly whining to the admin (again) to have posts removed? Asking for a friend.”

        Sorry…you got the wrong guy. Fact is, I never complained to anyone

        Pesky thing, those pesky facts.

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        Oh Giant, Giant, Giant..

        From December 18th of the past year, your begging of the admin to engage in censorship appeared on the ECW boards. Hey, I’ll give you this, they accommodated your whines. I’m confident we’ll see more of that from you..

        nygiant1952 commented on “Stonewall Jackson is Down”.
        in response to Douglas Pauly:

        “Geezz, your well known deflection attempts are allover the place here 9again), but I’ll play along. That ‘liberal wing’ of the GOP did not morph into a Marxist-fed mob that hijacked their party. If anything, modern conservatives champion the very ’causes’ those REAL liberals use to embrace. Those who brought firearms to Michigan’s statehouse did […]
        Sir, this is the last time I will respond to your postings. It’s been months since I wrote a comment on this blog, and Chris removed many political comments, his way of telling us to stop.

        If you continue, I will have to ask Chris to block your comments.”

        Woops, there it is, as the song goes! No worries Giant. I’ve come to expect as much from you. Maybe you should send your censorship requests via private messages? Regardless, censorship is all the rage among your party and their Big Tech pals, ain’t it now? LOL..

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Oh Dougie Dougie Dougie,
        .

        You got the wrong guy. I never asked Chris to block your comments, or to remove them.

        Someone else must have.

        Nice try at a diversion.

  13. Rhea Cole says:

    Right from the start “The Confederate Battle Flag” was a fiction created by the Lost Cause counter factual Lost Cause. As those of us who study the war outside a few counties in Virginia know well, there were many, indeed, thousands of Confederate battle flag designs. Hardee’s Corps full moon flag is problematic the most recognizable of the six battle flags in the Army of Tennessee. My point is that from 1865 onward “The Confederate Flag” was divorced from its function as a tactical guide. When the the persons carried it into the Capital, it symbolized exactly what it is. The meaning of the flag our ancestors followed is nothing but a footnote in 9 point type at the bottom of the page.

  14. Mike Powell says:

    Folks I hate that the Confederate flag was misused by these knuckleheads. But is anyone surprised? Every photo of these people posing with their AR15 has the Confederate battle flag in the background, tastefully hung from their wall, crooked. Every Trump rally has the flag. Of course they would carry it into the Capitol. But for me, that travesty is pretty far down the list of travesties committed that day. A group of insurrectionists, who refuse to accept the legal results of an election, who had spent the last months talking, supporting and spreading the idea of overthrowing the decision reached by the election and overthrow the government who they say is stepping on their rights. They claim they will not stop, ever. So, their opening move is to attack Federal property. Does that scenario ring a bell with anyone?

  15. EVEN THE BLIND COULD SEE. THIS IS A STEP UP FROM THE LIBS. THEY KNEW DAYS BEFORE AND STILL DID NOTHING TO PREVENT IT . WASHINGTONS MAYOR IS A DISGRACE . “.DEFUND THE POLICE” WAS HER POSTION , THEN CALL ON OTHER STATE POLICE TO HELP HER OUT ..
    LAST BUT NOT LEAST BIDDEN WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE PRESIDENT, /HARRIS WAS THEIR CHOICE AND WILL BE .. THE dEMOCRAT PARTY IS THE TRUE POWER GRAB UN AMERICIAN VOICE HERE.
    Even the blind could see. NYGIANT952 WHY CANT YOU .? THE TRAP WAS SET AND THEY FELL RIGHT IN . SAD DAY FOR OUR COUNTRY ..

    • nygiant1952 says:

      Who in their right mind, would have thought that the President of the United States, would urge his minions to storm the Capitol, incite a riot, and threaten the duly described work of the Congress? These people were just terrorists, pure and simple. This was an attack by the Executive branch of the Government, against the Legislative branch.

      From what I understand right now, and the situation may change, there was no leadership in the Federal Government to prevent this. No one in the Federal Government could be found to give the authorization to allow police from Maryland and Virginia to come tot he aid to the Capitol and DC police.

      The election was fair and square. If it wasn’t, then why did so many Republicans win Congressional seats?

      If the election was rigged, then why only Biden/Harris and not other Democrats?

      Sad day for the country when home-grown terrorists defile our Capitol.

      • Lyle Smith says:

        Please cite/reference, like a historian would, where President Trump “would urge his minions” to storm the Capitol and incite a riot? What did he actually say?

        If this event is going down in history, let’s be good historians about it.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Sure!
        Trump indeed told supporters to gather at the U.S. Capitol and try to convince members of Congress to delay the constitutional process that would affirm Biden’s presidency.

        U.S. President Donald Trump did tell supporters on Jan. 6, 2021, to gather at the U.S. Capitol and try to convince members of Congress to delay the constitutional process that would affirm Biden’s presidency. Trump’s use of phrases “you have to show strength” and “demand that Congress do the right thing” were meant to condone violence and crimes among right-wing extremists

        Transcript:
        After this, we’re going to walk down — and I’ll be there with you — we’re going to walk down, we’re going to walk down — anyone you want, but I think right here — we’re going to walk down to the Capitol, and we’re going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women. And we’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness, you have to show strength, and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing, and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated — lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your votes heard today.
        The best is yet to come. We’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue — I love Pennsylvania Avenue — and we’re going to the Capitol. And we’re going to try and give — the Democrats are hopeless, they never vote for anything, not even one vote — but we’re going to try to give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don’t need any of our help; we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

        Read it and weep.

      • Lyle Smith says:

        Lol… that reads like Trump encouraged people to exercise their First Amendment right to peacefully assemble. That’s not even the full transcript. He spoke for an hour.

        Mythology springs forth already.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Speech integral to illegal conduct, speech that incites imminent lawless action,….are examples of speech that is NOT protected by the First Amendment.

        I think you can agree with me that rioting, and desecration of the Capitol are lawless actions.

      • Taylor says:

        nygiant1952, thank you for posting this. It must be only part of the transcript. Can you post all of the transcript, even if you have to break it down into separate posts?

      • nygiant1952 says:

        “You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength. You have to be strong,” Trump’s words

        That says it all

      • Lyle Smith says:

        “You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength. You have to be strong,” – explain how this statement is incitement to riot?

        This is just boilerplate political advocacy, not incitement to riot. Abraham Lincoln could have said this about dealing with the Confederates.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Easy as pie, Lyle… Trump and other speakers at the “Save America” rally contributed to the chaos by whipping them into an unruly frenzy and encouraging them to do what they could to help him overthrow the election.

        Pretty easy, once you put it altogether.

      • Douglas Pauly says:

        “I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to PEACEFULLY and patriotically make your votes heard today.”

        And hence your DNC-created talking points are exposed for the pablum they are..

        Next?

      • nygiant1952 says:

        ..here’s another part of what Trump said.

        “we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. ”

        Fact is…the vote had been taken on Election Day…..and the voters declared Biden the winner and Trump the Loser. We Democrats took back the Country…and Trump incited the crowd of his supporters to demand that the result be subverted, and that the US Constitution be subverted.

        Next?

  16. nygiant1952 says:

    Just to make sure everyone is on the same page…..these mass riots were not First Amendment activities; they were criminal riotous behavior,”

    • Lyle Smith says:

      Trump’s speech was an exercise in free speech protected by the First Amendment. As was the assembly of the protesters.

      The violence committed entering the Capitol and inside the Capitol were not First Amendment activities. That was insurrection.

      Again, if you’re into history, please do not engage in creating mythology when what happened tells us otherwise.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Trump’s speech incited his followers into terrorists. Speech that incites people to riot, is not protected by the First Amendment.

        How many times did Trump use the word “fight” in that speech?

      • Lyle Smith says:

        Trump’s speech explicitly did not call for terrorism or rioting. You’re going to have do better than claim Trump can’t use the word “fight” in a speech that is advocating a political position.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        Easy as pie, Lyle… Trump and other speakers at the “Save America” rally contributed to the chaos by whipping them into an unruly frenzy and encouraging them to do what they could to help him overthrow the election.

        Pretty easy, once you put it altogether.

  17. In college, some 40 years ago, I hung a Confederate battle flag on the wall in my dorm room at a Texas school. Months later, a neighbor from down the hall told me the viewed it as a symbol of the KKK. I asked why. He said because on news reports back in New York where he was from, the KKK would talk and that flag would be in the background. This Texas boy had never heard of that. This Texas boy still loves that flag, but it has come to mean so much more. At the end of the school year, I took down the battle flag and never hung it up again.

  18. Robert Denney says:

    The words “Confederate Battle Flag”, and “Stars and Bars” have been used in many of these posts to describe the flag carried inside the Capitol. Actually, I believe the flag carried is the Confederate Naval Jack.

    The terms “Insurrection” and “Terrorist” were also used to describe the crowd of protestors at the Capitol whose actions turned violent. I don’t think either of these terms are correct. It seems to me we all observed a crowd of Trump supporters whose actions turned violent. Therefore what we saw was a riot. If the supporters were Democrats, BLM folks or Antifa, the left wing news media would have called it a “peaceful protest” despite the violence.

    My point is that words matter, and everyone from the President of the United States to the news media should choose them wisely. Since they don’t, the public discourse had degraded to its current state. With the proliferation of ways to communicate nowadays, very few take the time to really evaluate how their words will be received. For that reason, I don’t see the public discourse getting any better.

    • nygiant1952 says:

      1. What ever you want to call the flag..it is being mis-used. It only belongs in museums, or at the grave markers of those soldiers who actually fought for the defeated Confederacy.
      2. Those terrorists marched to the Capitol to force the Legislature to disregard the results of the election….in other words,, they protested against the US Constitution…aka Insurrection.

      If you recall from Civics 101, there is already a way to change the Government…it’s called an election.

      • John R. Moreno says:

        Of course, unless the election was won by fraud. Unfortunately, there is a lot of evidence for this, but the frustration is that the evidence was not really addressed in court. Certainly, when State legislatures heard all the evidence they were concerned.

        The more interesting question is what happens the next election?

        Certainly Biden will not pursue cleaning up election procedures. Is is now considered normal practice that in heavily Democratic urban areas opposition observers will always be 70 yards away, or using software and machines with 68% error rates that can easily be manipulated? Even if you do not think the election was stolen, certainly there is considerable evidence that great effort was taken in certain districts to keep Republican observers away from the vote counters and the machines – something not done in previous Presidential elections. So very little has been done to promote transparency by election officers when faced with fraud allegations – or to say these procedures were only done because of the virus and will not be done anymore.

        So if these shinanigans become normal practice, could the Rebel battle flag become more symbolic? Will the middle of the country accept rule by California-New York-Detroit-Atlanta-Lansing-Chicago when transparency is obviously being denied and you have evidence of truckloads of new ballots being shipped in from out of state?

        The South succeeded because they were scared of majority rule from the North, and the effect that would have on slavery and their economic and political power and survival. Will Texas, Utah and Missouri accept rule from California and New York when it is NOT absolutely crystal clear that it is actually based on majority rule and not fraud? This is the question that should be asked.

      • nygiant1952 says:

        No evidence was ever presented in any US Court, that proved that the election was won by fraud…NO EVIDENCE. We don’t decide on hear-say or innuendo, or just because we don’t like the result of the election…but on hard facts. And there were no facts presented. Even Rudy Guiliani never presented any facts to a judge, he only presented his opinion to the masses.

        Biden will not pursue any cleaning up of any election procedures, since the elections are a State issue and not a Federal issue, and there was no fraud. recall what the Constitution says….In Article I Section 4, the Constitution says: The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations.

        There were no machine irregularities. Republican observers were present…In fact, when asked, even Republican lawyers had to admit that a number greater than zero Republican observers were in observation at all times.

        Why haven’t GOP Senators complained when GOP Representatives were sworn into office, if the election was a fraud?

        No truckloads of ballots were shipped anywhere!.

        Federal law supersedes state law, so ..yes…the Mid-West follows the same laws. Recall that they have an equal vote in the Senate as every state…2 senators.

        The South left the Union because of the election of Lincoln. Recall that the Supreme Court had ruled that the Missouri Compromise was un-Constitutional and that property ( ie slaves) could be brought into any state. Plus to abolish slavery, one needed an Amendment to the Constitution, since slavery was referred to in the Constitution ( 3/5th rule).

      • John Foskett says:

        “the frustration is that the evidence was not really addressed in court”. Have you read the rulings? There were 60+ cases filed. In most of those the court ruled based on the absolute failure of the plaintiff to provide any evidence to back up the allegations. As the US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit pointed out, saying something happened doesn’t make it so without any evidence. If there was actual evidence (and I don;t know who has seen it), the lawyers should have presented it. They never did.

    • John Foskett says:

      Well, at a minimum they assaulted the Capitol with the specific purpose of interfering with the exercise of a function vested in the Congress, so it was not simply a “riot”. If you want to get technical, try seditious conspiracy under 18 U.S.C., sec. 2384. There were some who entered with additional purposes, as well.

  19. Mike Maxwell says:

    During the Civil War 1861 – 1865 there were nations beyond America’s borders that followed proceedings with interest while remaining “neutral.” Many of these nations benefited from America at war with itself: exploited blockade running; sold military equipment to both sides; alluded to support of one side or the other, while giving full support to neither.
    As the nation tears itself apart in 2021, who outside the United States has most to gain from a diminished America?

  20. That battle flag means whatever intent the user assigns to it. I do not accept that it stands for racism in some intrinsic way. But, we have to accept that many, many people do perceive it as a symbol of racism.
    Tom

    • nygiant1952 says:

      Well, that battle flag was carried by those who supported slavery and racism.

      • Mike Maxwell says:

        “A mighty republic is at this moment reeling upon the brink of destruction. The wild and ultra portions of [the citizenry] are in the deliriums of fever and know not what they are doing. The miasm of years of slander and misrepresentation has filled and corrupted the life blood of the nation. If blood must be shed to allay this fever, no bleeding will be effectual which does not bring the patient to the very verge of death. Timely pacification or universal ruin and desolation is the alternative before us.” [Baltimore Daily Exchange of 11 JAN 1861 page 1 col.8.]

      • nygiant1952 says:

        “Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition.” Alexander H Stephens, Cornerstone Speech,Savannah Georgia, March 21, 1861.

      • Mike Maxwell says:

        “…and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” [Abraham Lincoln.]

      • nygiant1952 says:

        -that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—Gettysburg Address, Abraham Lincoln, November 19, 1863

  21. Robert C Larson says:

    we can revoke Trump’s citizenship if treason can be proven

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