Statues of Stonewall: Charlottesville 2017

Jackson Statue-CharlottesvillePerhaps you remember this image from my “Statues of StonewallStatues of Stonewall” series: the Stonewall Jackson monument in Charlottesville, Virginia.

On August 12, a white supremacist rally in the city—organized to protest the removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee—turned deadly. Thirty-two-year-old Heather Heyer was killed and nineteen others hospitalized when a car plowed through a crowd of counter-demonstrators. Since then, both the Lee and Jackson statues have remained at the center of controversy.

I took a trip down to Charlottesville today to finally check things out for myself. Here’s what the Jackson statue looked like: 

Black Tarp Jackson Statue.jpeg

In nearby Emancipation Park—recently renamed from “Lee Park”—here’s what the Lee statue looks like:

Black Tarp Lee statue.jpg

The city plans to remove the statues but, until it can, it has draped them in black plastic tarps. First installed on Wednesday, August 23, the tarps are intended to memorialize Heyer’s death.

I have always admired the Jackson statue, in particular (a replica casting stands in downtown Clarksburg, WV—the town of Jackson’s birth). Of the many “statues of Stonewall,” the Charlottesville statue has always been my favorite because it captures a sense of urgency and action. Although it’s an impressive memorial, it is also an impressive piece of art—beautiful, detailed, inspiring.

It’s hard to recognize him under the black tarp.

34 Responses to Statues of Stonewall: Charlottesville 2017

  1. I read a biography of Jackson (by James McPherson). He was a strange and interesting man. Although removal of (some of) these statues bothers certain people right now, I think in the long run it’s a good thing, and years from now it’ll be no big deal.

    1. Maybe removing all vestiges and references to the Civil War will be a good thing too. You know, because then certain groups in this life will be deprived of the basis for their perpetual victimhood that some politicians exploit for their own gain.

      1. Wow. You don’t have to be sarcastic. I’m just giving you my opinion. But in response to your above statement: I see a lot of “victimhood” also coming from outraged Lost Cause Southerners, such as their “history” and “tradition” supposedly being erased, and there are politicians on their side that also exploit for their own gain. The door swings both ways, sir.

        And how about some “civil discourse” instead of sarcasm? Nastiness leads the conversation nowhere.

      2. Greenepete58….I have no ability to reply directly to your post below. So I have to do it from here. I am not being ‘sarcastic’ in any way. I am being as up front as I can. Seeing how there is an undeniable desire to rewrite history by way of mostly dead-of-night maneuvers, then commenting on such efforts and what they might hopefully lead to is fair game. Only someone who is terminally aggrieved could label my comments as ‘nastiness.’ Indeed, talk about ‘victimhood’.

      3. Regarding your post of 11:06 PM, Mr. Pauly: now you’ve taken to labeling with “terminally aggrieved.” Yet this isn’t nastiness, you say? And please open a dictionary and look up the word “sarcasm.”

      4. (rather, 11:58 PM). And how is removing a statue “rewriting history”? How is history actually being changed? The removals merely erase painful SYMBOLS for some people, and (what has now become) a gruesome cause celebre for others, such as the KKK and neo-Nazis. Do you require statues to remember Confederate history? If you wish to remember, which is within your rights, why can’t you go to the library and read a book, or view a documentary?

        For the record, I’m not in favor of removals of ALL Confederate monuments. I agree with Civil War historian David Blight that, although removals of statues of warriors devoted to a cause to preserve slavery is a good thing, it should be done carefully, with discrimination, and without grandstanding. Unfortunately, as with so many other issues these days in America, people are either all one way or all the other. There’s no middle ground.

      5. Geezz Greenepete, dry those eyes! Your WHINING aside about my posts, the tripe you’re spewing in yours doesn’t pass muster. “Painful symbols for SOME people” as you put it, yet those same ‘pained’ folks didn’t give a rat’s hoot about them until they were TOLD to. You mention Nazis yet conveniently and selectively ignore the communists and other thugs who showed up to do battle with them in Charlottesville. Unlike YOU, I condemn them ALL. And I not only condemn those who instigate violence in the name of their ’cause’, regardless of what that cause is, but I also condemn those who are taking these statues down by giving in the threats made by those on their OWN side, and I condemn when some of the statues are being removed, like in the dead-of-night. The reference to ‘history being changed’, which is indeed the agenda being served in all this, is an attempt to deflect from the actions of the Democrat Party and THEIR culpability in trying to maintain the slave trade and the war THEY started to preserve that. Talk about a ‘white wash’. And as we have seen, now the same agitators who have made war on these statues are starting to do the same towards other such markers and monuments, like those of the Founding Fathers. Those who look at history only through the lens of ‘presentism’ are ill equipped to ever understand what REAL history is all about.

  2. Unfortunately Chris I’ve never made it down there yet to see the Jackson statue. As I’ve stated in earlier comments to the people that are arguing to take all the statues down I firmly believe in states rights and I believe it is the right of the people living in that general area to make the decision what type of statues they have standing up. I say this more strongly than ever because I saw on the news last night that they’re debating whether or not to take the Robert E Lee statue towering over Richmond down. Robert elee basically gave his life to the cause in the sense the campaigning was so hard on him not only did he suffer from chronic dysentery and other ailments like the common soldiers we now know he had a heart attack also which led to his premature death after the war. And all Robert ely’s literature that I’ve been able to read and from the vast amounts of information I’ve read about him he had no intention of going to war unless Virginia seceded, never did he say to my knowledge he will pick up the sword in defense of Virginia. Everything I’ve read and studied says after he turned down the union offer to lead the union Army’s he waited until Virginia left the Union to join the CSA in order to protect Virginia from what they saw as the invading Marauders. Not only was he and thousands and thousands of Confederate soldiers hemmed in Richmond and Petersburg during The nine-month Siege thousands upon thousands died in defense of that very City. I don’t know how you tear down the statue of the man who gave up his family, fortunes and life

    1. And you’re going to tear down his statue? To me that goes beyond politically correct like him or love him even David Petraeus stated that Robert E Lee was the greatest General that this country and West Point ever produced even if he did fight on the wrong side of History. If the people walking by the statue everyday wanted tore down that’s one thing, but unfortunately it’s generally people from the outside that start the agitating, start the we’re not bringing business to your city until it’s torn down, like the Civil War never happened. So if we’re going to pretend the Civil War never happened I guess apparently we Can’t Stop spending so much money honor inner cities in the forms of life insurance, food card, even government assistance in places to live for those in the Inner City. After all when the Irish came over the Italians came over whoever and wherever they came from they were discriminated against and used as cheap labor yet generation after generation did a slightly better until they pulled themselves out of the ghetto without any government assistance. So if the Civil War never happened if that’s how we’re going to deal with this now I think the amount of money and the number of generations since 1865 is more then plenty to pull themselves out of the ghetto. You can’t have one and not the other, in other words you can’t say the Civil War never happened by tearing down every statue and erasing all literature yet continue to use affirmative action and the many many other programs to help Intercity people when every other race that has come over was just as discriminated against yet was he able to pull themselves out of the ghetto through hard work and strong family ties.

    1. I notice how those who are doing all the agitating on this issue and who have deemed the themselves the ‘champions’ of all things “anti-Fascist” have dressed these statues in the very attire they themselves don when they gather to commit their mayhem. You know, black clothes, black face masks, black helmets, etc.? Ain’t that interesting?

  3. I have written off Charlottesville as a lost cause! The city council and UVA admin have ruined the city! I will never spend time or money in that city again!

  4. This is a very very touchy subject. The editors of this site have gone to Great Lengths to provide us with a forum to debate great civil war campaigns battles and people but also how it affects modern day Society. We must remember no matter how hot the subject is for lack of a better term we must show us to be better than the people that riot and disagree in a polite, respectful, and calm Manor the way the people who set the site up wish us to. Because I am very conservative does not mean I don’t respect the opinion of others or even sometimes change my mind after listening to them. I have written a lot and this topic because when I feel when we get to the point we’re tearing down Robert E Lee statue in Richmond which he died defending that we’re going too far, not in the sense that we want the Confederate States of America to arise From the Ashes and when or something absurd like that, but that the people who live in that area need to make those decisions, not people bussed in from other cities and states. For all I’ve written and explain my point of view as an example of how things generally don’t work and shouldn’t work on this site due to the fact as previously stated the editors have done a great job of keeping conversation and discourse polite and civil as it should be. So again my point is this: every nationality that comes over in great numbers is extremely discriminated against, me to take the lowest paying jobs like a street sweeper which is nothing more than collecting horse feces all day which is which my great-grandfather did, well my great-grandmother took in washing from nearly half the block and also cooked pies and sold them. Might just sent as stated as German I’m 100%, just read the Civil War battles on Chancellorsville and Gettysburg even as soldiers putting their lives on the line they were constantly slammed and blamed for everything despite the fact they asked for more soldiers to guard their flank at Chancellorsville for instance. The generals and soldiers of the army at that time didn’t even have the decency to refer to them as German they called them Dutch, which has absolutely nothing to do with Germany. But money people on the other side of the argument say well Irish Italian German as much as they were discriminated against they were still White so they had a better chance which if you knew how hard my great-grandparents had to work you would know that is absolute Phooey. A great example is the Mexican Americans, although brown skin through an amazing work ethic and an amazing family structure Fierce Devotion to God, most are Catholic, they work and work for their kids to have a better life in a better area. But as the other side wants us to believe where to take down the statues rewrite the history of the war as if it didn’t happen, yet endorse policies such as an affirmative action, money for Living, food card, non-stop disability boys checks,. The the majority of these people are actually White, inner cities are full of white people which is what my race is on these programs other than affirmative action. But so are a highly disproportionate number of African Americans, and when everyone on the left says it’s time to have the talk when we bring these things up and how disproportionate arrests jail prison and other sorts of incarceration are were immediately branded racist. That’s a topic for a whole different discussion, just because you’re conservative though and have a different opinion to repeatedly be labeled a racist is cheap ignorant to a very low level. So overall everybody that comes to America no matter what their skin color no matter what their race they’re always highly discriminated against just as no doubt African-Americans are. But if you truly as someone from the left want to have that talk that we’re always tiptoeing around how come when we bring up these numbers we’re immediately called racist when the data doesn’t why? For instance all the time I took explaining my opinion at why I disagree with taking the statue of Robert E Lee down from Richmond I get a comment back back that just screams shameful with explanation marks. What’s shameful? My opinion? How I look at things? You don’t even elaborate because you can’t argue the facts so you resort to name-calling which is all the left can do. Don’t agree call us a racist, bring up a solid fact you say it’s because police, HR departments at businesses, and everyone else discriminates. And then if you have a friend of African-American color and your white or vice versa generally at some point slavery’s brought up. But I thought we were tearing down the statues as if the war never happened. If there’s one important thing I’ve learned from all this it’s that the Civil War is the first large scale War with large-scale agony from injuries and death where the victors don’t write the history of the battle. And if you want to have that talk that is probably the best place to start, cuz to skip over the seven figures of white people that died means and had amputations so that African-Americans could be free is a disgraceful Injustice to all those who served. I will give you a great example of how the history of the Civil War has been Rewritten. I attended U niversity of Michigan, my first Civil War class was called introduction to the Civil War. When I bought the textbook I couldn’t wait for the class to begin because having studied World War II all my life I was extremely interested in learning about all the battles and all the people that participated in such a brutal War to make this country a better place. The textbook was roughly 800 pages long and divided into four tests over 200 pages, that was 25% of our grade. Since it was 25% of our grade obviously we had to study and no what was in the huge textbook as a mere sophomore in college. Yet for all the battles in the textbook and all the hundreds of thousands of people that died 75% of our grade was based on Douglas, a single African-American no matter how bright and intelligent he was and the papers he had written. That’s right 75% of our grade and an intro to the Civil War was based on one black man and his thoughts not on the 500,000 families whose loved ones came back Main and disfigured or not at all that was only 25% of the grade. That’s called the rewriting of History and it’s shameful and as having great-grandparents who fought in the Union I find it disgusting. So please if you want to comment on what I’ve written please come at me with more than screaming disgraceful and explanation marks, because if you’re conservative it doesn’t mean you’re a racist. Also I did six tours and I myself I’m short a limb, so please don’t come at me that I don’t care for this country or four people of any color my family is not just people that share the same blood or DNA as me, my family is made up of people that have no problem answering the phone at 4 a.m. when I have a flat tire and coming and picking me up. I don’t care what color anyone is this is just my opinion thank you and please everybody I know this is a very touchy hot subject but let’s respect the editors and authors who put this page together and made this site great and disagree in a respectful educated polite way. Thank you and God bless everyone

    1. Dear Tuffncuddly:

      The last sentence in my first response to you posts – referring to their length – was a bit snarky and for that I apologize. I wrote my first response before I read your profile. You are truly a courageous individual. I hope you get your book published.

      That said, I was a bit put off by your remarks about “inner city” folks. I won’t go into detail about my professional background, but it has included many years of seeing first-hand the hardships faced by people in the “inner city.” Did I come across lazy people, con artists and cheats in the inner city? Of course – although they were small-time pikers compared to the lazy people, con artists and cheats I met among the so-called upper classes.

      The vast majority of inner city people I came across were hardworking, desperately trying to lift their families out of poverty so they could provide a better life for their children. Many worked two jobs in an effort to get their children out of the ghetto.Tens of millions of inner city folks have been successful, just like people of other ethic groups. But much discrimination against African-Americans still exists and it is not confined, by any means, to the South. And this racism is far greater and has lasted much longer than bias against other ethnic groups. Again, because of my professional background, I have seen this first hand.

      1. Bob: Very well said. Hard work, honesty, and dedication aren’t found exclusively in upper income parts of our country. And dishonesty corruption, and illegal conduct are not monopolized by the “inner cities”. I represent school districts which cover these extremes and everything in between, so I’ve seen all of these things and they occur without regard to race or income level.

      2. It’s very fair to say what you did, it was wrong the way I said it my intent was correct but the way I said it was completely off. Growing up and working in Detroit most my life before the service the majority of poor inner-city people are white so I kind of assume people who don’t grow up in the city sometimes know that and I’ll say Intercity and Phil thing I’m speaking of minorities so my bad brother. And again I want to thank you for all you said I want to thank you for supporting me on my book I hope to finish it in December and thank you very much for saying let you know when it’s finished so you can buy one and let other ECW people by one two I really appreciate the support. God bless you and have a great day my man

  5. Tuffncuddly, et al:

    Wouldn’t the statues of Lee and Jackson look just as nice inside a museum, instead in a public place? After all, both fought to dismantle our great and blessed nation and to preserve and expand slavery.

    Please, Tuffncuddly, try to keep any response to this post to under 4,000 words.

  6. The tactics used here are the same as isis used except isis did it in the day light . These people and there left wing ideals do it in the middle of the night like a coward they are . .If you dis honor these men for the reasons you choose to state you do not know your history .
    Bob R Tuffncuddly was a veteran .

    and defend our” great and blessed country ” as you put it .I ask did you ? Before you add you dis respectful remarks you owe him an apology.

    Write as many words as you wish tuff. we who choose to read them can and will. Those who wish not to dont have to.. For awhile we still have that freedom in America < till they try to remove that as well.

  7. Interesting that you mention the U.K David, perhaps you’d like to read the attached. It’s not just a U.S problem and if the self-righteous left wingers can successfully destroy history and the misguided right wingers can attach their chosen strand of history to their misguided ideals / cause, then woe betide us all !
    If the link doesn’t work just google “Guardian Nelson’s column”.
    Thanks to Chris M for allowing this debate.

  8. Thomas, et. al.:

    As I wrote in my earlier post, both Lee and Jackson fought to dismantle our great and blessed nation and to preserve and expand slavery. Hmmm. I just can’t imagine why anyone would object to statues in public places that honor these two “patriots.”

    Thank God Lee, Jackson and their ilk were unsuccessful and the United States of America remains the United States of America.

    1. Bob, this will be lengthy, and for that I apologize to all who see and read it, but I don’t know how to reduce the content here. I agree with your sentiments about the Union prevailing and hence the country ultimately remaining ‘whole’. But to say that Lee personally fought to preserve slavery is just not correct, or at least, it’s a convenient (for some) over-simplification. He fought for VIRGINIA, period. He was offered command of the UNION forces until VA voted to join the Confederacy. I will remind all that Jackson BROKE THE LAW in his attempts and endeavors to educate slaves. The penalties for that were quite severe. Certainly there was a contradiction at play there, with a man who owned slaves and believed that it was God’s will that permitted such slavery, yet, those same religious beliefs and convictions compelled him to break the law in trying to better the lives of his and others slaves. Go figure!

      There is no ‘one size fits all’ when it comes to why and how and who paid for the erection of Confederate statues. Per the actual ISSUE of the particular statues and monuments in question, many of them were erected to commemorate anniversaries of battles and/or campaigns. And in many cases, the surviving men who fought under the leaders on the statues were part of the apparatus that enabled their construction and dedications. I have been researching this since the sudden assault on the monuments, to see if any of them were erected for the sole purpose of insulting blacks, or with an intent to ‘subjugate’ them, and so far I have found no proof of that. If someone has such proof, I will appreciate it if they would post it. Now, I DO believe there is some evidence, or at least belief, that some of the statues represent the proverbial ‘middle finger’ towards Washington, DC, even if they weren’t or are actually pointed AT Washington. and that is no doubt expressing the sentiments of those ;Lost Cause types who certainly have made their mark in the public domain over the years and decades after the war.

      I personally do not object per se’ to the removal of these HISTORICAL artifacts, but I do strongly object to how and why it is being done. And for the record, the Confederate flag flying from government buildings is absolutely unacceptable. We all know that for years, for decades, for generations, NOBODY gave a hoot about those statues. The ones who might actually have a reason to be insulted passed away long ago. But suddenly, almost magically, and literally over night, we get the pronouncements of some who are ‘offended’ by them, who are ‘angry’, who want them removed NOW by whatever means necessary. Now we see that ‘offense’ creeping to other monuments and statues and institutions that have nothing to do with the Confederacy. That’s why PROCESS is everything in these matters. There is a lot of what can be accurately portrayed as ‘revisionist history’ in play here. And it appears to be winning out. Anyhoos, that’s how I see it.

  9. Mr Ruth
    When I give a program I Always add the comment ” MOST CIVIL WARS DESTROY A COUNTRY . WITH GODS GRACE HE MADE OURS STRONGER.” He did this through understanding each other. The people who lived in that era realized that and if YOU would ever read your history without your blinders on you would see that too . I am afraid it is those like you who are destroying our “great and blessed nation”. You seem to know more about the issue then the people that lived in it.
    Oh yes you never answered my question Are you a veteran? You seem to put down those of us who served .our great and blessed land . Yes Bob Lee and Jackson are and were citizens of the USA. Ask PRES. LINCOLN .ALSO PRES. EISENHOWER.

  10. Douglas:

    Thanks for your calm and reasoned reply to my post. I agree with much of what you wrote.

    I agree that Lee and Jackson were fine and upstanding men. And, of course, both were brilliant military commanders. But the fact remains that they fought on behalf of the Confederacy and all that represented. If the Confederacy, i.e. Lee and Jackson, had won, our nation would have been split asunder and slavery would have been expanded and preserved for generations.

    Erwin Rommel and Isoroku Yamamoto were fine and upstanding men and brilliant military commanders. But they fought on behalf despicable, bloodthirsty regimes. If Germany and Japan, i.e. Rommel and Yamamoto, had won WWII …. well, you get my drift.

    1. But Bob, Rommel and Yamamoto were not American citizens. The thing is that the statues are not being taken down because of the ‘insurrection’ itself, or what that meant to the ‘union’. They are being removed because some claim they were put up for the express purpose of insulting and/or intimidating a certain group of people in this country, i.e., they are RACIST. I still marvel (for lack of a better word) at the group think in place here, where these statues have been in place for decades and even generations, and suddenly, literally out of the blue, people who never cared a whit about them are suddenly ‘outraged’ and ‘offended’. I do believe a bigger political agenda is being served that has nothing to do with any aspect of the Civil War, and/or slavery. Of course, no one is actually served when the ‘players’ involved are of such extremes, like those who purported to have ‘defended’ the statues in Charlottesville, and those who were, and are, out to remove them.

      I mentioned PROCESS in my earlier post. I repeat that ‘process’ is vital in determining the final outcome. Seeing how these statues are being removed, and when (like in the dead of night) is akin, to me, of those folks who believe they should be able to change the Constitution on any whim that hits them on any given day! If ‘presentism’ is going to be the lens through which we view and ACT on events that happened long ago, where does it stop? Are we going to sever relations with allies who engaged in acts that we can agree were objectionable? Remember that slavery was brought here way before there was a USA! Great Britain, Spain, and other European countries were active participants in that industry. Shouldn’t we sever all ties with them because of that, based on the ‘logic’ some are applying today to the statues and monuments? How about the countries in Africa where tribes would capture members of other tribes to sell to the Europeans? I ask again, where does, or should, it stop? For me, it’s not the WHAT that bothers me, it’s the HOW.

  11. Thomas:

    Unlike Douglas’ calm and reasoned reply, yours is angry and incoherent and therefore unworthy of any further response from me.

  12. Finally we have some thing to agree on . Your liberal remarks and one sided views are not worthy of my time to to spend responding to you . Like the monument destroyers you support there is only one way and that is your way .Yes I get angry when I feel my country and its proud history are attacked . Southern blood is as red as northern blood . They chose to reconcile .some thing you do not. The slavery issue died 150 years ago . Let it be. If you did not think so much of your self and your views you may of been a good historian .
    may i ask one last time did you serve your country ? Are you a veteran?

  13. Dear mr. Ruth thank you for your kind words. I try to put my disability out there on sites like this because when people don’t meet me in person or you’re not Skyping people say things and then I feel really awkward. I just want to let you know you don’t have to oh, I went through the poor me stage the angry at the world stage until finally I accept who I am and I’m proud of what I did and I believe I made a difference but I want to apologize to you and anyone else on this awful political climate and subject that has even managed to suckle life out of one of my greatest Hobbies, that is anything Civil War. I thank you for your input and everyone else’s and I’m just going to sit back and it was horrible at all and hopefully become more educated and more intelligent which does not necessarily mean more liberal, LOL just kidding guys anyway take care and thank you God bless!!! And again if you’re new to this site due to a disability for my last tour I have to use talk to text which produces rambling sentences, awful grammar, and overall gives me the appearance of an ignorant uneducated fool. Well some of my girlfriends May argue I’m a fool my U of M professors will at least argue they tried to educate me LOL… It’s the Sabbath guys I’m going to have dinner with my family I hope everyone else can be with their loved ones today take care God bless

    1. Dear Tuff:

      If you get your book published, let us ECW followers know. I want to be one of the first to buy a copy.

      FYI: Some of my best friends – including two of my three kids and three of my four oldest granddaughters – are conservatives. One of my granddaughters sometimes wears a “Trump has balls” T-shirt when she visits our house. I laugh every time she walks through the front door wearing it. One thing I’ve learned in my many years: Politics and politicians are not worth losing friendships over.

      Good luck, man. You and your family are in my prayers.

      1. Thank you very much sir, I couldn’t agree more in regards to looking any friend weather it be someone you grew up with to a fellow Civil War fan. I’m actually liberal in most social issues, just defense and the budget I get more right, but I’m so sickened by what’s been going on I’m retreating deeper into my family, dogs, God, reading and writing about civil war (not in that order, lol)…I have been doing as much research as possible on 2 Western battles need a break. Publisher in Kentucky strung me along for near 2 yrs., I’m plowing forword though. I received great health insurance, housing, and ok pension (Honorable Discharge), just need to find few more dollars for battlefield contacts, really want to become know for research. Honestly hope it comes together and publisher can keep every dime, want to prove I can physically/mentally do it. Thanks for the prayers, can always use them. You look at a book SavasBeatie puts out, well-researched, great maps, beautiful pics, it’s a splendid work of art. Hope to hear from you on the blog, God Bless

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